Curse

HawkofStorms · Nov 26, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

PUGs could hardly run Ursan when it was "good." I tried a Norn point farm one time with a PUG. None of the ursans but me even used the kd skill.

After we wiped and a monk rage quit, I went back to doing it with H/H alone without ursan. Much faster.

Although Ursan can still be used, it now requires thought. Thought = Death. At least in a pug.

wind fire and ice · Nov 26, 2008, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

I kind of wish Ursan was still with us.

Hating Ursan was just some huge fad that everyone and their god damn mother jumped on the bandwagon for.

If people actually gave a damn about teams being balanced with the gameplay, we'd see even more threads on nerfing Cryway than we did with Ursan. The fact that Cryway is now PuG and guild meta just proves that it's about as difficult a concept to grasp as Ursan, which, remember, another reason people hated it is because it was too easy. Cryway is only marginally more difficult, if the PuG populace can do it.

People would also have the sense to realize that an Imbagon is about as overpowered as a full team of Ursans before their nerf. One person (the Imbagon) could provide the same AL benefits to the whole team at no cost on the skillbar of other players.

People are hypocrites who can't think for themselves; either want game balance, or don't want it.

Gotta agree with him,ursan was never really that bad,and cryway is just as fast but people arent mad about it,and yes quite afew people still use ursan,it can be fun..not as effective as it used to be,and not as effective as allot other builds,but its fun.

Jenn · Nov 26, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Ursan (along with those other blessings) was worse from a design perspective than other PvE skills because the other skills still required you to make a functional bar that used attributes and the other basics of the game.

I'm not sure Ursan being worse from a design perspective is very relevant. Would you not be more inclined to agree that, whether it is buttons 1-5, or 1-8 on a standard meta bar, familiarity results in button mashing? Aside from a small part of the GW population, most people do not analyze, understand and work with skills to develop individual and group bars, and they don't need to in order to function as a relatively successful part of a group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

That said, I can't think of anyone who argued against Ursan but promotes other PvE skills as a good addition. If you have examples, name and shame.

I can think of a slew of people (upwards of a couple dozen), especially posters on guru. But a little birdy told me naming names on Guru is bad and that part of my post will go poof

.

DreamWind · Nov 26, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by persuadu

In pve when you win, everyone wins. In pvp, there is always a winner and a loser.

Perhaps some of the hardcore pvp'ers just put down pve because they cannot come to terms with the fact that while they are good at pvp, they have some weaknesses in pve, and therefore put it down and say "pfft, that stuff is below me".

LoL. The big problem with PvE in this game almost everybody wins, especially when overpowered crap like Ursan was around (and still is). The game is freakin easy if you have any competence at all. PvP is and has always been the defining factor of how good you are at Guild Wars.

I also find it hilarious that anybody thinks Ursan was "never that bad". Are you kidding me? It was stupidly overpowered before the nerf, and yet post nerf it is still being heavily used. Ask yourself why.

Smurf Minions · Nov 26, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Its just, you cant just take it with any pug and go win everything. People are not ensured of victory anymore, so people don't pug with it. But this doesn't mean its that much worse. Its just less easy to use.

So see it as a good skill, that is really worth it, and that is no longer the button smash fest that each pug could do and win.

Avarre · Nov 26, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

I'm not sure Ursan being worse from a design perspective is very relevant. Would you not be more inclined to agree that, whether it is buttons 1-5, or 1-8 on a standard meta bar, familiarity results in button mashing?

Firstly, I disagree. It's one thing to play Guild Wars on easy mode, it's another to essentially ignore most aspects of the game (character role, character build, attributes, etc) and win by spamming attacks.

Secondly, not really. While some bars boil down to just hammering buttons, that's a factor of the build, not of familiarity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

I can think of a slew of people (upwards of a couple dozen), especially posters on guru. But a little birdy told me naming names on Guru is bad and that part of my post will go poof

.

Well, the rule is technically against posting in-game names, because there's little solid proof (photoshop). Posting links to other posts isn't something I recall being a problem!

Numa Pompilius · Nov 26, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I can't think of anyone who argued against Ursan but promotes other PvE skills as a good addition. If you have examples, name and shame.

Exactly. Ursan was just the worst of the worst.

And it's actually still powerful, just not as ridiculously imba as it used to be.

Sweet Mystery · Nov 27, 2008, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

PvP is and has always been the defining factor of how good you are at Guild Wars.

LOL... that is all that needs to be said.....

Another PvP-Holier-Than-Tho attitude.... Solely PvP means people suck, the defining factor would more likely be people who PvP and PvE and succeed at both... tho I can be sure that many PvPers never PvE as has been said "it's beneath them".

Some people like PvP some like PvE, some do both... having PvPers trash things in the PvE realm is kinda lame tbh...and only enforces the snobbishness of PvP people.

Yes Ursan was overpowered, the nerf was probably too much the other way to a degree but as I've said it still has it's uses and in a proper managed team can still be effective.

DreamWind · Nov 27, 2008, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Mystery

LOL... that is all that needs to be said.....

Another PvP-Holier-Than-Tho attitude.... Solely PvP means people suck, the defining factor would more likely be people who PvP and PvE and succeed at both... tho I can be sure that many PvPers never PvE as has been said "it's beneath them".

Some people like PvP some like PvE, some do both... having PvPers trash things in the PvE realm is kinda lame tbh...and only enforces the snobbishness of PvP people.

Yes Ursan was overpowered, the nerf was probably too much the other way to a degree but as I've said it still has it's uses and in a proper managed team can still be effective.

It is time for people to realize that PvP and its players are superior to PvE and its players *blatant troll*.

Rothan Celt · Nov 27, 2008, 11:29 AM // 11:29

PvP only players and PvE only players suck balls PvX is the way to go

Bibblenorn · Nov 27, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I think Ursan is now a tool. No more, no less. Before, Ursan was "all" on Ursan builds. The other skills were there to keep you from dying if you were unlucky enough to lose Ursan. Now, it is good for some temporary spikes, energy recharge, and extra health and armor, but it should be part of a build, and not the whole build.

For example, I use Ursan on my dervish. Not all the time, or even most of the time. But I use it when I need to do alot of damage very fast. I use dervish skills to deal damage, and when my energy starts dropping too much, or my health gets too low, I bring up Ursan for a little while.

The nerf changed Ursan from overpowered, to a simple tool. Ursan is useful when people combine thought with with the act of filling their skill bar. Even as far as knowing when not to use it.

upier · Nov 27, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

It is time for people to realize that PvP and its players are superior to PvE and its players *blatant troll*.

So what you are saying is that there are people out there that are better then me at a completely meaningless activity - and to top it off, I am able to participate in this activity at the level that is providing me the only thing one can get out of it - fun.
What shall I ever do?!

Daesu · Nov 27, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I submit as evidence the 'heroes are better than pugs' mentality. The AI, when given equal setup, often outperforms players. Would a team of 8 heroes defeat 8 PvE players? After all, it's not PvP - one side is AI. We could compare their results with PvP players in the same situation - since it's a hypothetical of what PvE would be like if the person designing the skillbars wasn't intentionally (I assume) making mobs terrible. After all - the opposition being bad isn't an excuse for the team to play bad.

Even that is highly arguable. There are many places in PvE where you actually need to PUG and not bring heroes. So far, nobody has posted a successful 3-players, 9 heroes team for Urgoz and the Deep. How about beating Mallyx?

It is not that easy to use heroes when you hit high-end areas compared to a good PUG. If it is that easy to use heroes to complete these areas, almost everyone would be using them rather than stand around and LFG.

Trub · Nov 27, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

So far, nobody has posted a successful 3-players, 9 heroes team for Urgoz and the Deep. How about beating Mallyx?

LULWUT>?
And, correct me if I am wrong..This is before eotn, and Mallyx being 'dumbed down.'....

I count 3 peoples...and 5 heroes.
It is of a great help if the 'human' members of the team follow only 1 in the group that is calling targets, and pulling when needed.
The individual 'hack and slash em all' mentality given thanks to UB does not work well in a hero team.

I'll grab the original thread link when this dam page finally loads...

EDIT: Found it!!!
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...llyx &page=15

Balky · Nov 27, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

The biggest problem with ursan and a few other skillsets for that matter, wasn`t that it was overpowered. It was the blinkered attitude of a lot of players that it was the ONLY thing to use, and if you weren`t at least r8 in it, forget getting a group to join.

I was told i suck several times because i couldn`t be bothered with it, probably by some 12 yr old rofl...i did suggest they mail the devs and have them remove every other skill from the game as obviously they were now redundant...guess those mails never got sent :P

Shadowmoon · Nov 27, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

LULWUT>?
And, correct me if I am wrong..This is before eotn, and Mallyx being 'dumbed down.'....

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Pre seed of life nerf
Pre motivation/anthem of agression paragon nerfs
Pre splinter weapon nerf
And used a imbagon

Was able to reproduce success with this build a week after gwen came out (to get my mallyx statue

), probably with cons it still works, but not as well as heavy physicals do now.